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Post by Treklink256 on Feb 2, 2008 20:10:36 GMT -5
So... are any of the advanced tactics from Melee in SSBB? Wavedashing? Lcancelling? I watched some HRC vids, but I can't really tell...
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Post by stelzig on Feb 2, 2008 21:09:43 GMT -5
Both wavedashing and L-canceling is out. Or wavelanding is there, but the airdodge follows your momemtum and isn't controlled. There should also be less landing lag from attacks in general.
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Post by Treklink256 on Feb 2, 2008 23:33:22 GMT -5
D**nit. The more I hear about this game, the less I like it. It's been like that for a long time. I guess it's encouraging to hear that aerials generally aren't as laggy though... Anyone wanna give me the link to that site that tells how to play Melee online?
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Post by Nintendude1189 on Feb 3, 2008 0:34:20 GMT -5
It seems like pretty much every Melee technique that exploited the physics engine was removed. It isn't a good indicator of anything though. Take a look at Melee's peak metagame half a year after SSBM's release: youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGgYou can see just how far the game has come in all these years. I'm confident that new things will be discovered for Brawl.
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Post by 1221 on Feb 3, 2008 0:47:07 GMT -5
thanks for posting that
i was looking for a ~2002 match
it's aggravating hearing all the people saying how brawl isn't going to be competitive and that there aren't going to be any advanced techniques
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Post by stelzig on Feb 3, 2008 7:02:25 GMT -5
What's your thought on this new powerful ledge stall ("exploiting" the new auto-sweetspot to get endless invincibility frames) nintendude? I find that one to be the thing that endangers competitive potential in this game the most currently, but then again i could imagine there would be ways around it, but i'm unsure. This guy: ca.youtube.com/profile?user=OoNoiRoO seems to be posting quite a few videos about new potential advanced techniques and stuff. The new foxtrot and turning around aerials seems interesting
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Post by supersmashbrosss on Feb 3, 2008 7:36:02 GMT -5
The turn around aerials look amazing.^^
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Post by Nintendude1189 on Feb 3, 2008 12:42:35 GMT -5
What's your thought on this new powerful ledge stall ("exploiting" the new auto-sweetspot to get endless invincibility frames) nintendude? I find that one to be the thing that endangers competitive potential in this game the most currently, but then again i could imagine there would be ways around it, but i'm unsure. This guy: ca.youtube.com/profile?user=OoNoiRoO seems to be posting quite a few videos about new potential advanced techniques and stuff. The new foxtrot and turning around aerials seems interesting Well you could infinite stall in SSBM too but it wasn't a problem. Stalling to waste time is banned in tournaments. btw found some better vids: smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141249You can see some of them attempting to L-cancel out of reflex lol
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Post by stelzig on Feb 3, 2008 12:59:08 GMT -5
Both Mr.C and Yuna seems to disagree with you on that nintendude. Mr.C being the one talking most about it. You cannot really ban this type of stall because it's hard to tell when it is to drag time out and when it is to pressure your opponent. You would have to ban letting go of edge and UpBing again at all to be allowed to stop this. Or stop having time on at all which in their eyes appearntly will lead to endless or too long games (or simply put a game of patience which might not be so interesting). I still think there's a few ways to stop it though since the autosweetspot counts for both members. How about shorhopping above the staller. His invincibility frames are running out so he has to let go of the edge. If he doesn't i'll spike him, and if he does i will edgehog so he cannot grab it again. There's gotta be some way to prevent this stall. Anyway since you seem to be of a different opinion than yuna and mr.c maybe you wanna give your input in the discussion that's been about it on smashboards lately: smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=139387&page=15 (Start reading from Mr.C's post to mine on page 19)
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Post by Nintendude1189 on Feb 4, 2008 0:12:09 GMT -5
Well there's a really gray area between stalling and not stalling. Usually it's blatantly obvious when someone is stalling though, and nobody really does it to run out the clock anyway.
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Post by stelzig on Feb 4, 2008 1:49:44 GMT -5
Yeah that's what i thought which is also why i suggested just not using time. I have never seen a tournament match end because the time ran out and i have never noticed any player feel pressure from the time because they were behind...
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Post by Nintendude1189 on Feb 4, 2008 8:02:43 GMT -5
Yeah that's what i thought which is also why i suggested just not using time. I have never seen a tournament match end because the time ran out and i have never noticed any player feel pressure from the time because they were behind... I've seen it happen multiple times, so it does happen sometimes.
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Post by stelzig on Feb 4, 2008 9:13:20 GMT -5
Heh. If you ever find an example vid of that i would love to see it
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Post by Arthur42Dent on Feb 4, 2008 10:19:19 GMT -5
Nice to see that advanced techniques are already being discussed. I look forward to see pro matches.
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Post by supersmashbrosss on Feb 5, 2008 12:18:08 GMT -5
There's a glide cancel apparently. It works in the same way as Peach's float cancel in SSBM(though she doesn't have a float cancel in SSBB D= ). No lag after landing from glided attacks.
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mimorox
Stadium Enthusiast
Posts: 355
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Post by mimorox on Feb 7, 2008 2:01:32 GMT -5
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Post by LinksDarkArrows on Feb 7, 2008 3:48:28 GMT -5
Falco laser locking is crazy. Surely such a move will be banned from tournaments.
I can't want to laser lock my friends for fun.
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Post by stelzig on Feb 7, 2008 8:22:42 GMT -5
I don't know it doesn't look that extremely powerful. It has knockback and doesn't do much damage so at some point i would fall of the stage wouldn't? Or will he be able to keep me in the air and just carry me all the way to the wall and die just with lasers? And if it only works on snake then i definetly don't think it should be banned then falco is just a counterpick for snake.
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Post by LinksDarkArrows on Feb 7, 2008 11:50:57 GMT -5
I think it may work with characters that have medium weight. you could easily up smash the character at around 50 (like we saw in the video) and carry them across all of Final Destination for an easy 80+ percent, or trap them against one of the many walls of Hyrule Temple. Hopefully you can get out of it. (I know the guy in the video said you can't, but sometimes workarounds are found)
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Post by Nintendude1189 on Feb 7, 2008 11:57:40 GMT -5
Falco laser locking is crazy. Surely such a move will be banned from tournaments. I can't want to laser lock my friends for fun. Why? It's extremely situational and probably difficult to set up. Jiggly Rest combos are a more efficient version of the same thing yet they are much easier to set up.
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Post by supersmashbrosss on Feb 7, 2008 13:39:25 GMT -5
Yeah, it looks like you have to hit them right before they hit the ground. The laser doesn't do much damage and it should stop once they reach the edge of the stage. The only problem is if there's a wall stopping them, you could rack them up to 999%.
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Post by Nintendude1189 on Feb 7, 2008 15:50:46 GMT -5
Yeah, it looks like you have to hit them right before they hit the ground. The laser doesn't do much damage and it should stop once they reach the edge of the stage. The only problem is if there's a wall stopping them, you could rack them up to 999%. Well in Melee, if Fox shined you against a wall he could rack up damage until 999%, yet the infinite shine wasn't banned.
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Post by LinksDarkArrows on Feb 7, 2008 17:36:06 GMT -5
Nintendude >
The infinite shine is a lot harder than up smash + B mash. This technique provides a lot of extra damage that takes no skill and there's nothing the victom can do about it. Just my view on this whole thing. I still enjoy it (a lot), I just think it's a bit broken for highly competitive matches.
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Post by stelzig on Feb 7, 2008 18:03:50 GMT -5
I still don't think it will "obviously be banned". Alright so let's say it takes no skill and therefore a player manages to beat someone better than him. Will the better player not be able to counterpick the falco next match? Both counterpick with a different character or simply choose a less flat stage. I first of all don't think it imbalances a lot (if at all), and second of all imbalance between characters usually doesn't mean you limit the character. Just that the game isn't very balanced. I guess it can somewhat go under the category "stopping gameplay/freezing it indefinitely" in sirlins article (http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm - i also place wobbling there btw), but it just doesn't seem like a big deal and there will probably be found ways to get out of it or just as "cheap" advantages to other characters later on.
Edit: And now i just read a few comments on the vid. Forgot about the short range this guy also mentioned. From that distance the guy would probably not even reach the edge of FD before getting out of it.
"It works against the wall, but Snake should get out of it on FD. The lasers would eventually take longer to hit, plus they run out of range after a while. Plus, do you seriously have to do those up smashes to start it? This is even less viable than fox cornering you into the wall to shine infinite you. "
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Post by supersmashbrosss on Feb 8, 2008 3:50:51 GMT -5
I don't think the range matters, Falco still fires at the same rate and Snake moves across very slowly so the distance shouldn't matter.
But it all depends on how many characters it can be used on. If it's just snake, I don't think it will be banned.
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Post by LinksDarkArrows on Feb 8, 2008 10:44:52 GMT -5
That article does raise a few interesting points. Perhaps his technique won't be so bad. Or maybe it will be ok to use in flat spaces (perhaps to a certain extent) and rough terrain areas, but against the rules to stick your opponent against a wall with it.
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Post by jerry3333 on Feb 8, 2008 12:04:01 GMT -5
I think the airdodge only goes left/right
then would it be possible to WD a platform that goes ''up'' what I mean by that, is like in yoshi island, at the right, you just need to hold right and jump + airdodge...
would it be possible?
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Post by 1221 on Feb 8, 2008 13:00:54 GMT -5
airdodge doesn't change your momentum. you just dodge in whatever direction you are going at the time
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Post by marth1 on Feb 9, 2008 1:23:58 GMT -5
one thing about the laser lock thing....i heard somewhere (and the videos seem to 2nd this theory) that everyone falls the same speed so the laser lock should work on every character
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Post by supersmashbrosss on Feb 12, 2008 5:31:44 GMT -5
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